NYCPHP Meetup

[SyAD at aol.com]

This may have been mentioned already, but maybe the best people out there are 
independent?
 
Steve
 
In a message dated 4/17/2008 7:38:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
JasonS at innovationads.com writes:

Ok, so with all this talk, and everyone wanting to make some money, why can't 
I get a decent resume across my desk?!

I am offering - imo - perhaps the best and most challenging work environment 
I've seen since I got to NY, and the only people who are handing me decent 
resumes are recruiters who are looking to earn 20 pct of YOUR salaries...

If any of you are the real deal - from QA to dev or anywhere in between - 
please, please give me a call or shoot me an email offline? 

And if you're not interested, then please stop asking the world why you can't 
seem to make a decent living - right here, right now, I can state matter of 
fact that I can offer that tomorrow to one or two of you, no problem, as long - 
as Tom says - you, youself, are truly worth it.

And believe it or not, assuming I'm not alone in this, hiring managers are 
possibly more frustrated than you all are! There are a lot more true employment 
opporunities out there than there are truly talented programmers to fill them!

Digest that :-)

Good debate, though, overall...I'm enjoying the read

Jason Scott | Chief Information Officer

233 Broadway, 21st Floor, New York, NY 10279 
Ph: 212.509.5218 ext 226 | Fax: 866-797-0971
innovationads.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On 
Behalf Of David Krings
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:12 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why IT Sucks

Kristina Anderson wrote:
> Tom -- 
> 
> The average corporate attorney makes $200K.  The average attorney in 
> business for themselves makes about the same.  The average CPA, about 
> 150K.  The average doctor, electrician, etc. etc. etc...way more than 
> we do.
> 
> The AVERAGE programmer makes, what, 80K if on salary?  (I'm self 
> employed and the hourly rate I can get from the clients is pretty 
> constricted by the market, and I'm trying to bust open that 100K 
> barrier but it won't be busted...I'm still on the losing end.)
> 
> And you don't feel this is an ISSUE?  You don't honestly feel that the 
> social status of the IT profession needs some improvement, that most of 
> us are underpaid?
> 
> Come on, work with us.  
> 

Gee, as a QA specialist / lead I get not even the 80k. So why should a 
developer get that much money? Developers make software so that QA can test 
it. For that QA should get paid more than developers. And even more, support 
covers the butts of QA which covered the butts of the developers and yet 
support gets paid crap compared to even a QA guy. I think developers are 
already overvalued, but the same applies to doctors (although depends, the 
PCP 
that gets called in the middle of the night deserves good pay) and lawyers. I 
also think that the front desk person deserves the highest pay, same applies 
to administrative assistance. While the big wigs play golf these fine people 
keep a business running. I know that from first hand experience. I worked at 
a 
place where among others the receptionist got laid off. After a week all hell 
broke loose. No office supplies, the water company did not get paid (neither 
did the electric and gas companies, or anyone else), customers left hundreds 
of messages and ran over to the competition because nobody bothered to 
reroute 
the phone lines or shut off the email accounts. And I am sure that everything 
will work fine if all the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies get laid off. And 
some companies do that. When I started working at Henkel in Germany for the 
first time they had 27 layers of management. When I worked there the last 
time 
they were down to less than a dozen. Stuff got done the same as before, but 
without spending millions on chair farters.

But no matter who you ask, that person always makes not enough money. Ask 
A-Rod and I am sure that he would love to get paid even more. They are all 
whiners, just look at that multi-billionaire who lost big in that Bear 
Stearns 
deal. OK, he lost about a billion bucks, but he still has 4 billion left! 
Even 
he is whining and feels cheated.

Honestly, I would be the happiest person on earth if I could make anything 
close to 80k. I think that is plenty awesome money for a 9ish to 5ish job. 
I'd 
be happy with even 70k. Not to say that I am grossly underpaid at the moment. 
Pay is OK, feeds the family and secures a home and then a bit is even left. 
But with even more money, I guess we'd just spend it all and then what, 
complain again it is not enough. We are quite spoiled, there are many who 
have 
to get by on 30k and no benefits. How can one work full time and not even 
have 
decent health insurance? Now those are the folks that have a right to 
complain!

David
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